I met Black Sabbath a few times between 1983 and 1989 and looking back on these interviews now from various press clippings I have decided to put some of it up here on Atlantis Online for public view. I think there are some interesting history within these conversations to be found and they certainly represent an era in the bands history that has been more or less ignored by recent historians. To me - Black Sabbath did some excellent albums and shows with Ian Gillan, Glenn Hughes and Tony Martin singing. It was darn great, as a matter of fact. Curse the idiots that try to rewrite history today.
Interview 1 - Ian Gillan (1983-08-19, Stockholm)
This interview has been published twice, in a magazine titled RECENSION and later in issue 16 of the swedish DEEP PURPLE FOREVER magazine. It was made before the "Born Again" album came out so there is no specific talk about the tracks on that album for that reason. But that night, Black Sabbath played their biggest show ever up to this point in Sweden and it was incredibly great.
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You didnīt hesitate to join Black Sabbath when they asked you?
- Yes, at first I didnīt want to know. I never really liked their image at all and I may have looked upon the people in the band in a negative way as well. My manager thought that I could at least meet them (Geezer Butler and Tony Iommi) and discuss it, so we met at this pub and I was really taken with how nice they were. We had the same humour and we shared a lot of views in general. Geezer went under the table first that night and I felt that maybe this was something to think about after all. So we discussed it and went through the details and then we started to rehearse. That went on for about six weeks. I knew by then that it was right so we booked time in a studio and in another six weeks we did the "Born Again" album.
Did you feel that you had to adapt your way of writing to suit Black Sabbath?
- No, I write in my own style and I didnīt want to sing a lot of drivel just because others have done it before me in the band. The lyrics are just day to day observations, just like in Gillan were a lot of the songs were quite dark and serious by nature.
Your band Gillan broke up last year when you got problems with your voice, what really happened?
- Well, we had just finished one of the longest tours ever and then we did another album called "Magic" very quickly and resumed touring. I then noticed that I had a problem with my throat but I didnīt have a cold. I went to a doctor and he confirmed my worst expectations and told me that I would lose my voice if I didnīt take a break. In spite of that, I did the english tour and after the final show at Wembley on december 17 I told the press that Gillan had to take a break. At that point I didnīt know what was going to happen but then I realised that the band was falling apart. Without going into details, I can say that John McCoy would not have been part of the band anymore if I had put it together again.
There were rumours of a Deep Purple reunion this spring...
- Well, I actually went over to America this january to meet with Ritchie Blackmore and Roger Glover for talks about Deep Purple. Jon Lord and Ian Paice were ready to do it. But somebody changed their mind so it fell through. I thought it could happen for a little while. As the situation is today it really canīt happen for the obvious reasons, but you never know.
You donīt get royalties anymore from the back catalouge?
- No, but I really donīt want to talk about that. One gets a little pissed off thinking about the fact that there are people who were not even members of Deep Purple who are making money from those records. I havenīt seen any money, except from a life insurance thing, from that part of my life in ages and I really donīt know what is going on with releases. Sometimes I open up a trade magazine and thereīs an ad for some new Deep Purple LP...
You are touring with Black Sabbath now, are you afraid that the problem with your throat is going to re-emerge?
- No. In my own band we did upwards 200 shows per year for six years, so to me Black Sabbath is like a holiday. Sabbath has a system that guarantees a day off regularly.
Some people see bands like AC/DC and Black Sabbath to be todays answer to what the blues artists of old was to people back then. Any thoughts on that?
- Umm, I donīt know. I suppose it is what you want it to be. Maybe...
Why are british bands so down to earth compared to american acts?
- Because we are completely nuts. We canīt begin to grasp that there is big money, lots of dollars, to be had if you just smooth out things a little (laughs). To be honest, you can only make it really big in the States today if you make music that the radio can pick up. It has to be hit oriented, radio friendly. Not too much energy, you canīt get played if youīre too aggressive. In fact, I saw Journey in San Francisco a few weeks ago. They were nice to watch and little computors helped them from making a single mistake. The audience loved it but they missed out on the experience that provides goosebumps all over your body, that raw energy. To me, that is real power. In America itīs more about the show.
Bill Ward is reportedly back after a few years absence in Black Sabbath, but why then is Bev Bevan here with you tonight?
- Bill Ward is back in Sabbath, yes, but he had a cold recently and Bev will be with us until we can bring Bill back in safely.
What is the plan at the moment?
- Well, we begin here in Scandinavia and then we do Reading and Dublin, the festivals there, and then we move over to America and Canada for 20 concerts. We hope to record a new LP by christmas and then we hope to play in England in january.
Is your solo career over or can we expect more albums from you in the future?
- If I get the time to do it I will. I have asked a few people, Jeff Beck, Simon Phillips, even Ritchie Blackmore.
Would you produce bands if you got the chance to do so?
- I already have, I did this band from Finland but it didnīt turn out so good. We did produce the new Black Sabbath album by ourselves though.
You work hard most of your time but what do you listen to when you have time off?
- Well, I like to listen to the radio, to see whatīs going on.
How does it feel to know that one is an influental figure to hundreds of people who want to follow in your tradition with their lives?
- Itīs nice to know that people appreciate what you have done in the past but there is one thing that they often lack that we had 13 years ago and that is the variation. The new bands have only listened to hardrockbands, so they donīt have a natural feel for blues and rock music.
You donīt find endless tours tedious?
- No. I hate to record music though. And the rehearsing is even more boring. I love to stand in front of an audience and that is the only reason that I go through the process of making new records. I know I need new songs to keep everything alive.
I talked with Mark Nauseef (original drummer in the Ian Gillan Band, ed) recently and he said that the record company wanted the band to perform a few Deep Purple classics for the "Live At The Budokan" shows. How do you react to that?
- Mark Nauseef is a musical snob and he thinks that he is above people that play hard rock, so I knew that he would be disappointed when I wanted to do "Smoke On The Water". The record company wanted some Purple stuff for the sake of increased sales so we ended up playing "Woman From Tokyo" and "Child In Time" as well. But the guys didnīt want to perform them like the original versions so we ended up doing them in this horrible way. But I donīt want to say anything bad about the Ian Gillan Band, I learnt more in that band than I can ever use. But I was so bored by the time we did "Scarabus" and thatīs when I decided to end that and start what became Gillan instead.
Will there be Gillan "Best Of" releases in the future?
- If the record company thinks that there is any money in it, sure. I have left it all behind me and I am quite content in the new situation, which is, for once, stress free. I used to have all these problems to deal with at all times since all the responsibilities were on my shoulders in Gillan. With Black Sabbath I can finally relax a little and just be a singer. But I spent a lot of sleepless nights, I can tell you that. I used to like the smaller, independent, labels. They seemed to be more honest and direct compared with the big companies.
So you donīt feel inclined to struggle for power in Black Sabbath then?
- No. Naturally, I keep an eye on what is going on. Just before I came in Tony and Geezer threw the old management out the door and it took them a little while to set up a new organisation. Everything is back on track again now and I feel very good. No sleepless nights, no problems...no money (laughs).
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Interview 2 - Tony Iommi (early march 1986)
This interview was printed in a couple of newspapers in Sweden at the time as well as in DEEP PURPLE FOREVER issue 2 and 16 later on. Tony Iommi visited Swedens capitol Stockholm to promote the brand new "Seventh Star" album at the time and he made a very good impression. I loved "Seventh Star" personally although Tony Iommi certainly had a hard time to defend the band back then.
Lets go back to the period with Ian Gillan and the tour you made with him. It has never been fully explained if he had Deep Purple waiting in the wings when he left the band.
- Well, first of all the entire "Born Again" tour turned out a bit disappointing. And prior to that we had been shocked about how poor the album pressing was. We were already out on the road by then so we couldnīt stop that from coming out. It didnīt take very long until we heard that things were going on with Deep Purple, but Ian didnīt know that we knew (laughs). We heard about it about six months before it happened.
So the tour lacked a true commitment from the band?
- No, we played well, but to me Ian Gillan is better off singing with Deep Purple. It may have suffered because we were four stars entering the stage. I like Ian though. He was good on the album and I like him.
The show was really something to behold.
- Yes, in fact we didnīt know just how huge it would turn out in real life, and in the end we only performed with the full stage set on one single gig, in Reading on the festival there. I mean, we couldnīt even get it into the big halls in America. We didnīt know when we saw little models of it that it would turn out bigger than a fucking hotel. Spinal Tap stole the idea but they turned it around in the movie (laughs).
So have you learned from the mistake? Will the next tour be a bit more down to earth maybe?
- Yes, but it will still be a nice show. I think it will look great. On the left side of the stage there will be like a city, with chimneys and stuff, and then there will be like a bridge that go by the drums to the other side of the stage, that will represent the future with lasers and stuff. So we are looking at a bridge into the future. A time machine. The idea is to present Black Sabbath entering the future. We have rehearsed for three months. Weīll do "Zero The Hero" from the last album, the rest will be classic stuff and songs from the new album. But Glenn donīt want to do any Purple songs, I donīt think he wants to even think about that period to be honest. Itīs nice to see him enjoy himself now, I donīt think he cared much doing Gary Moore and things like that.
He used to have a drug problem.
- Yes, but he is in control now. He has had problems but that is true for all of us really. He had a bad period in his life when he was ill and gained weight, but he is in a new phase in his life now where he wants to focus on his life and his career again. Itīs hard to stop somebody that has made a real commitment and he knows that we are all there for him.
After Ian Gillan there was talk about a certain David Donato joining, a guy from Los Angeles. What happened there?
- The record company were in a hurry to show that the band would continue. David was there but nothing was really set in stone. On the other hand, and this is not known until today, we had had a meeting with the original band after Gillan and we had decided to reunite within 12 months. Nine months later we are doing Live Aid together in Philadelphia and suddenly it was all to clear that the problems on the business side were just too big for us.
I remember the interview you did in Kerrang with David Donato in the band, you said you didnīt want to say anything, that you didnīt want to put your foot in it.
- Yes (laughs). Well, the Donato thing was done in haste, it never should have gone that far. We went public before we were sure about it. This is typical, weīve made so many mistakes like this in our career. In the old days everybody used to come to me, I used to handle everything. I picked up the lads to get them to the rehearsals and so on. I was a little older and they were always asking me for my opinion. I was like the father in the band and I think we needed that at the time. The period of the first three records were like that, they always came to me and asked for my thoughts on things, but I really didnīt want it to be like that. I just wanted to be a guy in the band. I wanted everybody to be involved. Once that finally happened, everything turned into chaos. No decisions were being made and it was past the point were I could have the final say because now we were a band. I donīt want to repeat old mistakes again and the last band was so false. I want to do it right this time. The guys Iīm working with now are very eager to prove themselves. A lot of well known people were in touch with me but I wanted hungry guys with me, people with no past. Glenn has a reputation, but he still has the hunger that Iīm looking for. He has something to prove on his own.
Are all plans to reunite the original Sabbath over now?
- Yes, that was the end of that. Geezer had been writing stuff that didnīt sound like Sabbath at all and he was just fed up and wanted to try that stuff out somewhere else. I emmidiately decided to carry on as Sabbath then, with or without the other guys, and get my solo-LP out with that name on it. All the music was written for it.
It certainly sound like Black Sabbath to me.
- Yes, but then Iīve been the main song writer since day one, 95% of the stuff has been mine. So if it sounds like Sabbath it is only natural.
So how did Glenn Hughes come into the picture?
- Glenn has been a friend for years. I used to know him when he was in Trapeze, way before Deep Purple. In fact, when Ozzy left we considered Glenn for Sabbath at the time. We jammed but for different reasons the timing just wasnīt right. But now, as I asked him to contribute with his voice, and later when I told him that I wanted to call it Black Sabbath, he was very eager to give it shot.
How will you plan the tour? Surely you will not forget about Europe this time as well?
- No, Iīm totally aware that we must spend more time in Europe. We need to play here much more than has been the case in the past. We start in Chicago on the 15th and weīll do the States first, then we will come to Europe for shows here. In fact, Iīve been talking to the manager about cutting the american leg of the tour short so that we can play more here in Europe. But in all honesty, there was a time when nobody wanted to book Black Sabbath in Europe and that is why the band did so many tours in the States. Lately, there has been a real interest for the band here, but the problem with the States is that the market is so big that you can spend months on the road there before you enter top 50. Personally I wouldnīt mind just dropping America but it isnīt that easy. Iīm aware that Sabbath should be here and that is why Iīm doing this promotional tour right now.
What would a real Tony Iommi solo album sound like?
- Exactly like "Seventh Star". I have always tried to do exactly what I feel like on the Sabbath albums, like jazz stuff for instance. Like the stuff on "Never Say Die". We also did guitar based stuff with the London Philarmonics on "Sabotage". I have written stuff for the next LP that sounds more like typical Sabbath. I have quite a lot of songs ready to go and the only reason that I havenīt recorded them yet is lack of time.
On "Seventh Star" you have written the lyrics as well.
- Yes, that was a new experince for me. Glenn and Geoff helped me out with that. When Ozzy was in the band everything was written by Geezer and after that we had Dio and Gillan doing most of it. My main job has always been the music. The main theme comes from a Nostradamus prediction that says that there will be a re-birth when the seven planets line up in the sky. Things like that has always interested me. The idea for the cover goes back to the title track, thereīs nothing there. Iīm looking at nothing, a re-birth. You know, Geoff has been a member of the band since 1980 and Iīve been thinking about letting him onstage playing a guitar synth. He is a very good guitar player. But I donīt know, maybe people will think that it looks strange with two guitar players? I want him to be seen now.
What do you think will happen with mankind in the future?
- (laughs). I think deep down we all know what is going to happen.
( I here show Tony a book titled "Original Black Sabbath" to get his autograph).
- This is like a bootleg job. One of the pictures shows me with a black eye. I got that in a fight with a bunch of skinheads that Geezer started. I recall that Ozzy hit somebody in the head with a bottle. Apart for that picture I canīt recommend the book to anybody.
The Black Sabbath Interviews Part II
ATLANTIS ONLINE - MORE INTERVIEWS
