From nv91-asa@zwart.nada.kth.se Mon Jan 10 13:01:55 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 12:21:46 +0100 (MET) From: Anders Sandberg Subject: Re: Third World Mages To: mage-l@wizards.com Message-ID: I agree completely that White Wolf has made the traditions too Western. To some extent this can be explained by assuming the European traditions have expanded in the wake of the Technomancers (See my posting about the Technocracys methods). But mostly I think it is because WW don't know enough about possible traditions from other cultures, and neither does most players (What traditions exist in the Phillipines?). After all, it is hard for most players to relate to traditions completely outside their own culture (I personally feel quite out of my depth when discussing the Akashic Brotherhood, Dreamspekers and Hollow Ones. My players repeatedly points out that I have a hermetic bias. :-) To some extent, the Traditions described are just groupings of mages with similar methods. There was mages at the Emperors court in China who were most definitely hermetic, but completely unlike the western hermetics. A shaman from the Aleutian tribes would recognize parts of the magick of a African medicine man, but would probably disagree quite a bit with him about how the universe worked and what the spirits wanted. The traditions describe a western perspective of multicultural groupings with similar methods. I think the idea of well organized, cooperating traditions is simply not working. Even with the technomancer threat, many groups will not cooperate with the "Traditions". Maybe the Traditions as described are the Western alliances against the Technocracy. Originally they were many disparate groups, which have been forced to work together against their mutual enemy. In less technocracified areas, they do not cooperate ("What? Would we, the True Tantric Brotherhood of Bombay cooperate with you, the Sisters of Delight? Begone, impure ......!") I also think that the idea of central chantries is somewhat flawed. Many traditions do not have any central organization. Akashic Brotherhood seems to be divided into many sects, each with its own centre. Cult of Ecstasy is quite different in the East and West (compare a Tantric mage with the pot-smoking rebel in Berkeley). Euthanatos and Verbena certainly are very disorganized except on the local level. Order of Hermes is split into many fractions. To run a central chantry the tradition must also be able to communicate, and to travel to it. How long did it take the members of Verbena to travel to Schwartzwald from India in the 10th century? I prefer to think of the "central chantries" as the largest, and currently most influential chantries. Cordoba may not do much good against the technomancers, but the traditional hermetics are protecting it and its treasures. Other chantries may be up and coming, and different fractions may have different centra. The Alchemists have Prague, the Cabalists Cordoba and the Rosicrucians Vienna. Finally, I also agree that the Celestial Chorus is definitely not Christian. They may be behind many monotheistic religions; "First spread the idea of one god to make people ready for the Truth, then we can preach It safely." Unfortunately the plan backfired somewhat, as people became quite fanatic about the beliefs the CC just wanted to use to spread their ideas, and the CC became tangled up in religious hierarchy. They have much more in common with the heretical sects the Church crushed in its ascension to power during the end of the Roman Empire, than with Christianity. All in all, I think the Traditions are usable, not as actual organizations but as examples of the differing beliefs and methods of mages. A member of the Sons of Ether do not necessarily have to be a mad scientist in a secret lab, he could be a particle physicist questing for Grand Unification (Read "Dark Matter" by Garfield Reeves-Smith for a really nasty Son of Ether along these lines). A Hermetic mage do not necessarily wave pentacles and chant Latin, she could be a priest in Japan. And so on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension! nv91-asa@hemul.nada.kth.se GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c+++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y